Connected at NADA 2024 Special Episode: Service Efficiency with Tully Williams from The Niello Company
Greg Uland: Hi, I’m Greg Uland with Reynolds and Reynolds. And this is Connected. We're at the NADA show in Las Vegas, and, very excited to sit down with Tully Williams. Tully, if you don't know, then you’ve probably been hiding under a rock for a while. But he's the fixed ops director at Milo Company in Sacramento, California. Tully, thanks so much for joining us.
Tully Williams: It's an honor to be here. Thank you so much for the invite. I sure appreciate it.
GU: Absolutely. Tully, you're all over LinkedIn. You're with Ted Ing's quite a bit. So I see your face a lot. I hear you discussing things a lot. So I'm excited to talk with you. Before we get into some of these things, share with me a little bit about your background. You've been in the industry for a long time. You've seen a lot of different things. But, tell me your kind of story and how you got here.
TW: Great story. So started in fixed ops, you know, in high school, my first job, I worked at an independent garage. You know, it got into the, General Motors ASEP program, which they had back then. And that was, you know, a long time ago, in the 80s.
GU: Yeah.
TW: And, I went to that program and had dealer experience work for a Pontiac Delorean dealer.
GU: Nice.
TW: Pretty old. So then I, branched off and started my own company, The Auto Clinic, which was a, repair facility and tow truck operation. So we had 20 tow trucks and eight techs.
GU: Wow.
TW: And, you know, and I felt that experience helps me today because independent world is all about repeat referral.
GU: Yeah.
TW: And when you're a dealership, you're like, okay, they're going to sell some more cars, so I get some more customers. They really realize that every customer is valuable. And I really learned that. So then after that, worked at a couple dealerships, worked for my good friend that really gave me a big break was John Anderson at Courtesy Chevrolet around the it was a big Chevy store 40 techs. It's really, when I sunk myself in on the fixed ops side in the dealership world.
GU: Yeah, yeah.
TW: And I worked for my, good friend Shawn Dahlgren of the DDG group. And then ultimately, I'm at the Nilo company – 102 years.
GU: That's awesome.
TW: Here's a great part about it. 1921 they started as a fixed ops for Packard Aero Service Center, so I like to remind them that it started in fixed.
GU: That's great. And 100 – any time you get 100 years as a company it's just—
TW: It's insane.
GU: It's fun, isn't it? And you get to be a part of it, I'm sure. Did you guys do a big celebration?
TW: We did. We had a year-long celebration and campaign. You know, it was great. And it's, you know, it's really all about the people, right?
GU: Right.
TW: It's not you know, it's – yeah, it's great to be 100 years for the Niello company. But, you know, as Rick says, we're in the people business. And it really was a huge win. And, you know, tenure for us is a big deal.
GU: Yeah.
TW: And, our oldest employee’s a tech.
GU: Oh, really?
TW: Almost hitting 50 years.
GU: That's amazing.
TW: Our second, next oldest person is a parts manager. 48 years.
GU: Wow.
TW: So it's – yeah, I love that tenure, isn't it great?
GU: Yeah. No it is. So all your stores are in the Sacramento area?
TW: Correct. You know, one’s in elk grove? You know, 20 minutes down the road?
GU: Yeah, yeah. So the company's grown over time. Has it has it expanded since you've been there?
TW: One – so we're very fortunate – so we are a luxury brand. So we do have the oldest Porsche dealer in the United States with the same dealer, back when he got his Volkswagen store, you know, they said, ‘hey, Volkswagen. Yeah? Do you want to take this little brand here called Porsche and Audi?’ And he said, ‘Sure, why not?’ You know, it was it was kind of interesting story, but we did grow. We are – we have a second point in Sacramento. We have two points in that market.
GU: Yeah.
TW: We feel very, very blessed to have both those markets. So we have Porsche, two Porsche spots, two Jag Land Rovers, two BMW’s, Acura, Volvo, Volkswagen and Audi.
GU: That's great.
TW: That should make 10. Yeah, and a body shop.
GU: So when you're comparing, so a lot of experience when you're comparing, kind of mainstream service drives to a high line service drive, what would you say are the biggest differences or are there any? I mean, is it really the same thing?
TW: Great question. So when I came from Shawn's store, the Del Grande Dealer Group, that was more, you know, Japanese imports. You know, more mom and pops, I guess you would say. Or blue collar. When I went to Highline stores, it's similar in a way, is that you're not selling menus in the driveway.
GU: Yeah.
TW: It's, you know, they want to come in and sit down with you. You know, they a lot of them have the magic key. It kind of tells you what they need, right?
GU: Sure.
TW: But we also, I think – that though it's unforgiving, is mistakes. So unfortunately, you know, when you have Highline cars they expect more. I think we should expect that at a Yugo dealer. But, you know, those people there expect a lot from us and we need to deliver with that excellent service. And it starts by making sure you have the support and the right ratios of service riders. What happens in the you know, in the Japanese – guys, writing 40 RO’s, I mean, I don't even know how he answers the phone.
GU: Right.
TW: 8 to 12 RO’s a day. And you know, sometimes I think that's too much. So we have that time for that customer to build that great relationship, with our service advisor. So I think that's the biggest issue. So we don't write RO’s in the driveway. We don't sell menus in the driveway.
GU: Right.
TW: They come in, they sit down, they chit chat. We ask about their dogs and cats and, you know, and make them feel good and, you know, and then off they go.
GU: Yeah. Yeah. So do you do you really believe that the customers expect different things or you're able to deliver it? And I just, I ask that because I don't know that the consumer in general, right, necessarily has a lower expectation because they're in a fill in the blank. You said, you know, Japanese imports, so a Honda store, right? As an example. I would I would present that they probably have the same expectation. They just might not be as disappointed if it’s not met.
TW: I think you're spot on. I think that the just, you know, it's okay. Right? You know, they're not used to having, the High Line experience and I would say the High Line experience 100% done right.
GU: Yeah.
TW: And I believe in that. And that's a great segue into, you know, how do we make sure our people are doing that job right?
GU: Yeah.
TW: By monitoring and metricing them. And I have televisions throughout our stores and websites for them to look at how they do every day to follow that procedure. They walk in, we take pictures of the car, we perform a tech inspection. We send a quote. The customer says yes or no. We send them a link to pay online. We have a flawless issue. And I think what happens a lot is that stores that say, yeah, we do that process 40 percent of the time, right? We're 100 percent of the time. I go crazy.
GU: So how do you, you just mentioned some key points that you're looking at. Are there specific metrics that you're looking for?
TW: Very much so.
GU: Okay.
TW: Great example. So as you know, most everybody knows me I'm an hours freak. Like I only care about the technicians hours. So it starts there in my book.
GU: Right.
TW: Right. And I look at when I look at success at a store, it's all about making sure our people are successful and they make more money for them and their families. Right. But it starts with making sure we have a technician base. And when you look at fixed ops, I don't care about the money. I'm going to say it one more time. I don't care about the money. I care about selling the hours. And if we focus on that hour of that technician, everything works better. So everybody's on the same page. For example, you know, back in the day, parts departments and sales and service departments, you all know who's paying the freight? Parts aren’t coming for four years, right? If everybody knows that we care about selling 100% of our hours capacity, that means it's 9 hours or 10 hours a day per technician, not how many hours are there. That's what we want per day when they're there, right? Only fair. And we know that that is the focus and it's on everybody's pay plan. So let's talk about that. So we have a capacity of say 4000 hours for that store based on the workflow of that store. It has a number of techs times ten hours a day. Boom done. Parts manager, service manager, same pay plan, hours forecast, gross profit. Hours forecast is a key. Service advisor, hours forecast paid on the gross hours is a key.
GU: Right.
TW: All of our bonuses for our team leads and foremens hours forecast based on that. Parts counter people, hours forecast. Yes, I'm going to say it again. Parts counter people, took a little bit to get that done. But here's the deal. Now we're all focused on the same thing.
GU: Right.
TW: So now a parts counter person is doing what? Getting that part to the tech. Let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. There's no there's no we're not congregating at the back counter. Some of them don't even have back counters anymore.
GU: Yeah.
TW: It's a window, right, doesn’t even open. So I think that getting everybody on the same page delivers what we want. So now when we have the hours forecast built in, guess what we start doing? We want to check in the customer. We walk out to the car and take pictures to protect the dealer, really.
GU: Right.
TW: This is to be honest, the next piece is, is that 100 percent of cars are inspected. 100 percent, one mile, million miles it’s getting inspected and I pay the technician. Yes, I pay the technician a half an hour to do the inspection.
GU: You do a half?
TW: Half an hour, but they're doing a video and an inspection.
GU: Okay.
TW: And here's the thing about that. ‘Tully what, God, you're charging too much money for the tech.’ I disagree, I mean, I wish I could pay more because happy techs make you money. Two, is I’m paying them, guess what I get to do? I have expectations I can hold them accountable too.
GU: Yeah.
TW: So what we look at on our inspections are, is that we want to make sure that the tech recs per car on a mileage band is correct. Over or under recommending is horrible.
GU: Right.
TW: And I like to say we sell recommendations we'd sell our family members. So would you sell it to your family or no? Then mark it as a green.
GU: Yeah.
TW: Right? I mean, that's it is what it is.
GU: Sure.
TW: So making sure we have honesty and integrity there. So that's the key first person. We're doing the recommendations properly. Right. And then the next piece is, is that did we take a video of every car? When you look at the – and you look at the video.
GU: Do the techs do that?
TW: The techs do that.
GU: Okay.
TW: And that's part of their half an hour.
GU: Right.
TW: So when we first started it, you know we have technicians that think they’re Steven Spielberg. You know the thing would run like four minutes. Like, you know, dude, what are you doing?
GU: Yeah.
TW: And by year two, I would say, or, maybe year one, year and a half. Is that we, we used to have contests. And then what we found out is a second, a video that's probably 30 seconds to 45 seconds is the right one. ‘Hello, I’m Mr. technician Tully Williams…’
GU: Yeah.
TW: ‘…Thank you for coming into Niello Acura today. I'll be doing the inspection. I noticed that underneath the car,’ and they show underneath the car, ‘your brakes are at blank. Your tires are at blank. I notice some other items that I think need immediate attention. Our service advisor will get back to you. You should get a text message pretty shortly. Thank you for coming into Niello Acura today.’
GU: Yeah.
TW: And it really made our show rate much better. Now we take we mandate all pictures of anything red.
GU: Yep.
TW: We like yellows too, but really bad. Red is mandatory. So we got to make sure we're doing that inspection properly so we have the opportunity to sell it. The next piece is – are we getting the parts quote in time? Well, you know, it's back there for four hours. Seven minutes. I'm going to say it one more time. Seven minutes. It takes me to get parts quotes on all of our recommendations. Why? Because we want the tech to produce hours. So I get a bonus, right? God bless America.
GU: Yeah.
TW: And then, of course, did we send it to the customer? Oh my God. I mean, that was probably the hardest one to get done. Well, the customer's right over there. Send them the thing so he can look at it. Right. So we are you know, when you look at those metrics we’re 99 to 94, I'll be I'll be truthful, 97 to 99% and sometimes a hundred at all stores for those process.
GU: That's great.
TW: And then the final thing is we showed the results of all this great hard work. How did we do? I call same day selling but it's really same visit selling. Is that I track those on 12 categories. And what are we doing? Are we selling brakes? Are we selling tires? Are we selling oil leaks? Are we selling we selling, we selling, right? So now we sell 53% of everything we asked for. One starts with recommendations we’d sell our family members.
GU: Right.
TW: Two is that we are doing it in a process where the customer can see all those things. Because the trust factor now is ‘okay, I see why I need it. Do I have time or money to fix it?’
GU: Right.
TW: And that's what it boils down to. Yeah, money is easier to resolve. Credit cards. We know we have sunbit and all those products. And then – but time is always usually the hardest part. Parts, you know, parts delays from the manufacturers. It is what it is. But now we're focused on that. So now when we start selling, we're selling at 50%. Guess what we get to tell a technician because of your hard work, you sold 40% of all your hours were from your great recommendations.
GU: Yep.
TW: And that like really? Yeah. So guess what happens? They're bought in. And now these guys go home, as I like to say rich and tired every day.
GU: Yeah. So a couple things I wanted to double click on there. Yeah. The first one, going and going all the way back. Well, maybe this one's, this one's easier. So 30 second video.
TW: Yeah.
GU: Or 40 second video. How did you land on that? You said that that's the best. How do you know?
TW: So great question on that. So, I love contests that drive behaviors not just ‘you're the best person ever I'll give you money,’ right? So we did some tech contests and we've done it three times. And the top prize is $2,000.
GU: Okay.
TW: And you're like, ‘well Tully, it's a lot of money.’ Really? The technician produces 30,000 to $40,000 a month that he can't spare two grand.
GU: Yeah.
TW: We got, you know, if there's a sales department and they sold a widget, they get two grand, right? You know, just be honest about it. But here we go. Is that the contest drove that out, and we saw what really worked. And we had a lot of people look at our video. So the time we had our third contest, we all service managers agreed. Like we looked at 40 or 50 because we would have a winner per week and then the winner per week would be submitted to the pile. So then in theory, I had four videos per store.
GU: Right.
TW: I have ten stores, 40 videos to look at. And we looked at like we're all like, wow, these are this is a good video, this is all this too much. And then it comes down to where it's just the easy stuff, building that confidence. That's my technician saying my car is great or my technician says I need immediate attention. Yeah, immediate attention is better than, I got some reds and yellows, a guy will call you. Or they go off on a tangent about what brake pads do. I don't think people really want to know that. I think this is they want to know quick and easy. They can look on their cell phone and say, you know what, I need to take a look at that. And my technician said, yes.
GU: Yeah. When you looked at it, you were saying earlier that you're a data guy. Did you look at any metrics like closing ratio or, views or percent to completion on the view? Were there any of those things that you looked at when you were evaluating?
TW: Great question. So when we looked at our views on the videos, what we found is that the shorter the video, the more views. And they made it to the end.
GU: Okay.
TW: When a technician got a little techie, off they went. So our goal was, is that we really wanted a super high because we know we're spending a lot of money on these videos, right? We want to make sure we get a value. And we really saw our look rate go up rocket high when we dialed it all in. And the here's the deal, technicians like it better too, anyways.
GU: Yeah.
TW: You know, some of them are the little techies. You know, they got a little workaround. But you know now we look at it. So if you see one that's too long the service. So I can say hey we need to read that one again. Yeah. Why should I do that? I paid you half an hour. Please do it again.
GU: Yeah.
TW: I'm just trying to sell the great recommendations we’d sell our family members. That's all I'm trying to do.
GU: Right. That's good. So the second thing to circle back on, and this is kind of in the beginning when you were talking there, you were talking about, you know, making sure that the technician gets 9 to 10 hours depending on how long they're there for the day. How many, bays per tech do you have?
TW: That's a great question. So most of our stores are maxed out. We do have one store that has 17 bays. It's an area that’s growing. So we're going to grow into it. If you're a store, it's 1 to 1. But if you're producing 400 hours a month, I'll give you two.
GU: Yeah.
TW: 400 hours is a lot. And, our number one technician last year, and he's an anomaly, but it's good to say it. 5600 hours last year.
GU: Wow.
TW: 5600. Yeah. And you got to look at it. You know, if you just did eight hours a day, you're under 2000. So, I mean, so that guy deserves two stalls, right? And then I think that when you look at our foremans, you know, they have a stall. Usually there's a rack in it. And if you have a heavy duty guy, maybe they share a stall in the middle, but our goal is 1 to 1.
GU: Okay.
TW: Because if we are doing a good job and we are busy, we're not going to add on to the dealership to put stalls, unfortunately.
GU: Right.
TW: We just got to maximize our stalls and, you know, just thinking through that question is that then if we did a better process on doing the video, getting it to the customer quickly is, I like to say the best car to work on is the car on the rack, not the parking lot. And then we can get our customers to say yes faster, which keeps them in their stall, which makes them more productivity, which they make more money for them and their family. God bless America.
GU: Yeah. No, that's good. And where I was kind of going with the question. So I don't know if you've tried this before or if you've seen other dealerships do it, but if you have, you know, on average one and a quarter, one and a half bays per tech, can they be more productive? Right. You think about 9 to 10 hours a tech. Should it be 9 to 10 hours a bay, right. If you can get more out of each tech. So they're doing, you know, 11 hours or 12 hours in a day if they're good enough, if they're productive enough, like it is there, do you have experience there?
TW: So here's what I think about that. I look at the tech, I look at the human more than the shop. And some people probably disagree with me. That's fine. But if I believe that I make my techs the most successful they can be, I want to make sure I have enough hours for all of my techs before I hire another one.
GU: Yeah.
TW: And the only way you're going to grow and fixed ops is hire another tech. You can't raise the door rate to make you more money, right? You know, the days of okay, your budget this year is ten, 1.10, 1.1% last year. That's the stupidest thing on the planet, right? But our goal is that if we're going to grow our stores, we have to grow. So getting back to your question is that if I believe in the hours of my technicians, I should know what my profitability at my store is. If we want to talk about money, which I don't like to talk about.
GU: Sure.
TW: But my goal is, is that then I can say, okay, for you to get to where you want to be. The general manager usually is that we need to have 14 techs and we have ten. They're running at 130%. They're making 14 hours a day every day of their life. Great job. Are you feeling that you have the capacity to add another tech because you do have an extra stall or two?
GU: Sure.
TW: And yes we do. We're backlogged two weeks, hire a tech. Because what happens is that if I flood the store with more techs, we'll tell you got you got all these hours. But then all of a sudden now my techs went from 14 to 10, right? And people say ten is a great number. Not for them it isn't.
GU: Yeah, if there were 14.
TW: You know, I believe that, you know, employee satisfaction is much more critical because CSI really stands for customer supplies income. It starts with the humans at your store.
GU: Yeah, yeah. No, that's a good point. That's a good point. So let's go down that path a little bit talking about, you know, CSI and talking about the customer score, right. And the impact that the employee has on it. I give the analogy all the time. You know, I worked retail for a long time. I grew up in an auto parts store. Like a retail parts store. Yep. And, there were so many times when I'd sit there behind the counter or stand there behind the counter, and I had the phone here, and I had three people in front of me. And you're trying to make them all happy, and it's impossible. You don't have the tools, you don't have the, you know, the ability to serve everybody at the same time. So then everybody gets a little frustrated. You're speeding through, not providing a great experience.
TW: Correct.
GU: So talk about that a little bit in the correlation between customer experience and your employee experience.
TW: I love how you said that. So, you know, I believe customer, employee satisfaction is first. And to your point, when you overwork employees, what happens? They don't sell anything.
GU: Yeah.
TW: They're cranky. Your CSI drops. So the way I keep that in check is I use ratios.
GU: Okay.
TW: The number of technicians to a service advisor 3 to 1. Why don't would say 3 to 1. It's 30 hours every day of their life if you're running at 150%, I'm just using that number because it's easy math. For me, that's 15 hours per tech. 15 times three is 45 every day of your life. So our goal is, is that I use three at 100%. So if we're running higher the ratio goes down.
GU: Sure.
TW: So now maybe it's one writer through two and a half techs. But that ensures that we make sure that we have enough people to write the RO’s and provide that great customer service that we expect.
GU: Yeah.
TW: Because you can't do that with 40 RO’s a day. I think 8 to 10 is the number. You have some superstars that maybe do 12 to 14, but they're anomalies. But that's okay. But if we noticed that when people suffer we say, hey, why don't you just write 6 for a while? You can make a good living if you sell well, write things that we'd recommend to family members. You can make a good living by just doing 6.
GU: Yeah.
TW: And then they get good at 6 and we, you know, bump up to 8. But that is the key issue. And that's and that actually comes to back counter people. So we look at techs to back counter people 5 to 1.
GU: Okay.
TW: Jag Land Rover where we – we like them to be a little heavy just because there's a lot of parts complexities. But our goal is that if we use those ratios, I do that with porters. I do that with, with the counter people, and I do that with writers, because now as we grow the technicians, what do we want to do? We have to grow our personnel to support our technicians and make sure we provide that great customer satisfaction in the service drive. So really making sure we have enough people is critical for us. Ratios resolve that. So you don't get you know, because HR people like ‘well, you know, do we really need to hire this person if we're going to provide great customer satisfaction?’ We all believe the ratios work. Why are you asking me the question?
GU: Yeah, yeah, we already made this decision.
TW: We made the decision already. It's kind of like, you know, with tech raises, right? You know, we like to put our tech raises and I'll give, Ed Roberts a huge shout out for that. He said, you know, I didn't do it very well. He does extremely well. And I mirrored him, you know, a couple of years ago. And I have my tech paths in writing. So it's just like my ratios of tech says, I want to raise. So I open up the brochure, like, where are you? Yeah. Oh, I'm right here. Great. So if you want to raise, you need to do blank. Yeah. Great. Great conversation.
GU: Yeah. No that's good. Expectations matter.
TW: Oh 100 percent.
GU: They really do. Yeah. Good. So, another thing that, kind of sparked my interest, you were talking about, you know, when you're talking about videos, you're talking about the technician doing a good video, the advisor obviously sending it to the customer, regardless whether it's sitting in the waiting room.
TW: 100% of the time.
GU: Doesn't matter who sent it. Sent on the video?
TW: Yes.
GU: Everybody's not going to buy them, right? It's not going to happen.
TW: No.
GU: Yeah. What did you say? 50 percent.
TW: We're 53 percent.
GU: 53 percent. Okay. So 47 percent of the time that customer is going to walk out with something that still needs done on their car.
TW: Correct.
GU: Right. And you're going to follow up with them in some percentage of those I don't know what yours is – usually it's somewhere between 4 and 8 percent are going to come back.
TW: Correct.
GU: When they come back. And this I think is extremely important. So curious how you handle it. I believe that you have to get that work. It's imperative you get that work to the technician that found it, because there's nothing more demeaning to a tech than they spend the time. They do a good inspection. They do a good video, for crying out loud. And then two weeks later, they see that same vehicle on the rack.
TW: They call it stealing.
GU: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So how do you manage that? Because it's not an easy thing to master.
TW: So we believe that you go back to the, to the to the tech that diagnosed 100%. Unless there is an issue where there's a time constraint, he's buried in something and he has to, he can't work on it.
GU: Right.
TW: But we'll tell him what's going on. Does he want to hang out or come in early? God bless America. But when the customer comes back, it goes back to the same writer, right? We you know, we know we have all the data on our MPI program to know what happened before the technician sees it, we do another inspection. Oh, yes, we do another inspection for a half an hour. ‘Oh my God, Tully you're spending too much money.’ No I'm not. But then they get back, so then he can, you know, that writer says, hey, a person came back and sold blank. We'll give it back, you know, give it back to the tech. Or, you know, if it's team leader, dispatch, whatever the story is during that time, but we want it to go back 100%. And the only time that wouldn't go back is that he's not there, or he's doing a hot potato that he needs to do first. And we got to get this hot potato done.
GU: Yeah, yeah.
TW: And then sometimes the tech, you know, the person will say, ‘hey, you know, I want my – you know, we do this so the same that techs working on something it so it won't be done tomorrow.’ You know the first thing they ask for as rental car which you know— loaner car which would you know, it's what we do and then. ‘Yeah I'm okay for tomorrow.’ God bless America. Tech wins. Customers happy. Everybody's happy.
GU: Oh it's great. Yeah. So I got to ask you, Tully. You know, you're clearly extremely passionate about this, right? In your high energy. And I love that, you've been doing this for a while. Why? What drives you to be so excited and so passionate about, you know, driving your stores, driving your techs, driving your people? What do you love about it?
TW: So I love happy, and I, and I think that I and I don't want it kicked in, I mean, I when I had my independent store, we were really family oriented there.
GU: Sure.
TW: You know, we eat lunch together and, you know, I think that probably brought it out. And then my first big job was, John Anderson's Courtesy Chevrolet. I probably wasn't as energetic as I am now.
GU: Yeah.
TW:And it wasn't. I didn't feel like the enthusiasm was there. And then as I went into, the Del Grande dealer group is that I found that if I am positive. Yeah, people respond positive.
GU: Sure.
TW: So you'll never hear me talk negative in front of a crowd, ever. So if you want me to do a job, you know, a review on somebody, if it's all F's, I'm going to find an A somewhere in it.
GU: Yeah.
TW: Your hair is unbelievably great. And, boy, it's great outside, isn't it? Yeah. You know, like, wait a minute. Is supposed to be, you know, a bad meeting, right? So I think that I get more from being positive. Now, do we have I have to have uncomfortable, uncomfortable conversations. Yes, we do, but that's what the manager's job is. I feel like that in my job as a leader is to promote fixed ops and make everybody successful and show them on a daily basis how successful they are. And that's where data comes in. And our TVs, you know, push that data out so they can say, hey, look at me. I number one or number two or I'm green.
GU: Yeah.
TW: You know, and I'm doing a great job and I'm making money for me and my family. To me, that's the win. Yeah. Positivity works. That's the reason, I think, employee satisfaction. So much more important than customer satisfaction. It follows suit.
GU: Yeah. No. That's great. All right. Well, Tully, this has been a great conversation I really appreciate we kind of went all over the place.
TW: It's a lot of fun.
GU: I appreciate it. Anything we didn't talk about that we should while we still have time or anything that's top of mind.
TW: I really encourage people to not look at Old Matrix. Hours per RO would be a dirty word. Look at selling your capacity. And, and if you look at selling your capacity, you'll be successful.
GU: Oh it's great, great advice. Well, Tully Williams, fixed ops director at Niello Company. Thank you so much for joining me today.
TW: Appreciate it very much.